pleco for malawi tank

[FF MkII]

If no one actually clicked on the link i posted it was the profile for L204......PH range..6.6-8.6

Problem solved if you ask me. I f someone wants to keep a plec in with there malawis, let them. None of us are in a postion to flame.

 

[macvsog23]

So nature put almost 1000 Species of this family in the Amazon? None any were else on the planet
We want to put a few Species in the same conditions as Rift Valley fish?
Guess we know best.

 

[Lornek8]

Err http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=126

This one came up before in a similar thread either in the early days of this forum or a previous forum. One of the interesting notes Cup pointed out about the parameters is the conductivity of 190 microsiemens. This equates to a GH under 6. Don't think both parameters (high pH & low GH) values are obtainable in an aquarium. Nor would they be found in a Malawai tank.

Though this begs the question, exactly what are the water parameters of the Malawi tank? We all assume that the water is buffered for the cichlids but is this indeed the case?

 

[Plecomadman]

So nature put almost 1000 Species of this family in the Amazon? None any were else on the planet
We want to put a few Species in the same conditions as Rift Valley fish?
Guess we know best.

I'm sorry but that is the most contradictory comment on this thread yet.

If this is the case why are you keeping fish in a glass tank?, isn't that basically doing the same thing?

 

[macvsog23]

I'm sorry but that is the most contradictory comment on this thread yet.

If this is the case why are you keeping fish in a glass tank?, isn't that basically doing the same thing?

It depnds how you care for and understand them

Lets us take a fish that lives in a river sytem were they have to migrate to spawn
Yes keeping that fish in a tank is wrong
Let us now take a fish that stays in a very localised area and rarly travels outside of a established huntting and breeding area. Is it not a situation that is the same?
Oh and I still dont have an answere to my question of why would any one want to place a pleco in a Malawi tank?

 

[Plecomadman]

It depnds how you care for and understand them

Lets us take a fish that lives in a river sytem were they have to migrate to spawn
Yes keeping that fish in a tank is wrong
Let us now take a fish that stays in a very localised area and rarly travels outside of a established huntting and breeding area. Is it not a situation that is the same?
Oh and I still dont have an answere to my question of why would any one want to place a pleco in a Malawi tank?

Sorry an answer to that questions can only be a decision made by you, if you dont want to keep one in a malawi tank then so be it but dont claim it is wrong for somebody else to when we are all in the same boat with not keeping fish in there 'exact' habitat like we do.

Can i ask what would you say if the question is... what plec could i keep in a discus setup?... couldn't this come to the same reasoning... discus, low flow high temp fish that need a high protein diet.


Can i also ask about invasive species like snakeheads which were introduced into the us and thriving?, im presuming these arnt from exact same waters as there natural origin?... yet they adapt and thrive and doing so well there causing a major headache.

We could go on all day long on this matter but the end result is.. neither i nor you are correct on the matter.. difference is that i accept that it is a possibility for a fish to exist happily and thrive where you reasoning is a bang straight NO it wouldn't work, you will be murdering your fish etc etc etc.

 

[Lornek8]

Can i also ask about invasive species like snakeheads which were introduced into the us and thriving?, im presuming these arnt from exact same waters as there natural origin?... yet they adapt and thrive and doing so well there causing a major headache.

Snakeheads have evolved a suprabranchial organ: a primitive form of a labyrinth organ. This adaptation is specifically designed to allow them to survive in varying and often poor water conditions. Similar adaptations are seen in lungfish and the Clarias Walking Catfish which are also a pest due to their ability to adapt & survive. While these fish have evolved to adapt the same cannot necessarily be said about all fish in general and not to the extent that snakeheads can.

 

[JoePlec]

If no one actually clicked on the link i posted it was the profile for L204......PH range..6.6-8.6

Problem solved if you ask me. I f someone wants to keep a plec in with there malawis, let them. None of us are in a postion to flame.

Well said.

 

[JoePlec]

Ok well i am going to set up a malawi/flash plec set up. i think it will be awesome anyone think this isnt a good idea?

 

[macvsog23]

Brilliant

 

[JoePlec]

Brilliant

HAHA thanks Bob :whistle:

 

[L273]

i'm going to say this as nuetrally as possible as there is conflicting views on this;

i thought L204's are detrivores and therefore needed a lot of wood in thier diet, i.e. bogwood, cornish oak. initially i thought these would leech tannins in the water and therefore lower the pH. even if soaked for a lond period of time they would still lower the pH by a slight bit. so how L204's would fit in with malawi's i don't know. :dk: (just my opinion, don't go off on one, you know who you are) :yes:

Also, anyone though about lowering the pH for malawi's? i work at a fish shop and ther average pH is around 7.5-7.7. i know this will then lead onto 'but the malawi's are kept at pH 8 in the wild' etc etc. but the way i see it, the cichlids are the hardier of the two to i'm sure they will be fine.


and again, just my opinions on the matter.


Tom

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,
I knew someone would bring up the stated pH range for L204, but it is a total red herring (all right it isn't, it is a black & white stripy Panaque), it is back to the buffering and pH equation.

If you have water with very little carbonate buffering the pH is a total movable feast, it will go up and down as the balance of H+ and OH- ions (or equivalents) change.

In this case it could be a simple as photosynthesising aquatic plants (including floating ones and algae). During the night pH will drop as the CO2 content of the water rises (the water has very little buffering so even the addition of a weak acid (CO2 + H2O <> H2CO3) will cause a rapid drop in pH) and during the day the pH will climb as the water becomes saturated with oxygen (O2). In this case the pH may swing from pH5 early in the morning to pH9 in the afternoon.

This is why pH8 in Lake Malawi has no real correlation with pH8 in the Upper Amazon.

L204 is a fish that comes from a river with low carbonate hardness, pH will swing up and down, we know there isn't much buffering in the water, we have the conductivity value that Lornek mentions.

Lake Malawi is almost infinitely buffered and the pH will hardly change at all, you would have gassed all the fish long before you could add enough CO2 to lower the pH by 0.1 of a unit.

I hope that makes sense, it really is quite important to remember that pH is a largely meaningless measurement on its own.

cheers Darrel

 

[thegeeman]

I nodded off after post 3 but from a personal point of view I wouldnt keep even a common bn in a malawi setup. Thinking about it I would just keep malawi,s.

Just my IMO and I have no big words or scientific evidence to back this up so please dont pick on me:cry:

Cheers

thegeeman

 

[macvsog23]

Hi all,
I knew someone would bring up the stated pH range for L204, but it is a total red herring (all right it isn't, it is a black & white stripy Panaque), it is back to the buffering and pH equation.

If you have water with very little carbonate buffering the pH is a total movable feast, it will go up and down as the balance of H+ and OH- ions (or equivalents) change.

In this case it could be a simple as photosynthesising aquatic plants (including floating ones and algae). During the night pH will drop as the CO2 content of the water rises (the water has very little buffering so even the addition of a weak acid (CO2 + H2O <> H2CO3) will cause a rapid drop in pH) and during the day the pH will climb as the water becomes saturated with oxygen (O2). In this case the pH may swing from pH5 early in the morning to pH9 in the afternoon.

This is why pH8 in Lake Malawi has no real correlation with pH8 in the Upper Amazon.

L204 is a fish that comes from a river with low carbonate hardness, pH will swing up and down, we know there isn't much buffering in the water, we have the conductivity value that Lornek mentions.

Lake Malawi is almost infinitely buffered and the pH will hardly change at all, you would have gassed all the fish long before you could add enough CO2 to lower the pH by 0.1 of a unit.

I hope that makes sense, it really is quite important to remember that pH is a largely meaningless measurement on its own.

cheers Darrel

Good Post well thought out and backed by facts
PH is as staed not the point Kh is

 

[macvsog23]

I have a bet that this post will go to over 10 pages

 

[scatz]

I have a bet that this post will go to over 10 pages

i'll take that bet Bob, because if the thread carries on the way its going, i will be closing it.
As per the site rules that you all agreed with, argue with the post, not the person, alot of the posts are getting too personal. Some are even baiting members into an arguement, if this continues, infractions will be issued too.

Remember that everyone is entitled to an opinion and we should respect that and not challenge it, i'm all up for a healthy debate, but not when it turns into a ***** fight, so keep it civil and keep it relevant

 

[JoePlec]

Hi all,
I knew someone would bring up the stated pH range for L204, but it is a total red herring (all right it isn't, it is a black & white stripy Panaque), it is back to the buffering and pH equation.

If you have water with very little carbonate buffering the pH is a total movable feast, it will go up and down as the balance of H+ and OH- ions (or equivalents) change.

In this case it could be a simple as photosynthesising aquatic plants (including floating ones and algae). During the night pH will drop as the CO2 content of the water rises (the water has very little buffering so even the addition of a weak acid (CO2 + H2O <> H2CO3) will cause a rapid drop in pH) and during the day the pH will climb as the water becomes saturated with oxygen (O2). In this case the pH may swing from pH5 early in the morning to pH9 in the afternoon.

This is why pH8 in Lake Malawi has no real correlation with pH8 in the Upper Amazon.

L204 is a fish that comes from a river with low carbonate hardness, pH will swing up and down, we know there isn't much buffering in the water, we have the conductivity value that Lornek mentions.

Lake Malawi is almost infinitely buffered and the pH will hardly change at all, you would have gassed all the fish long before you could add enough CO2 to lower the pH by 0.1 of a unit.

I hope that makes sense, it really is quite important to remember that pH is a largely meaningless measurement on its own.

cheers Darrel

So are we saying a fish cannot adapt to live in these conditions? Because i know that to be 100% false. If a fish adapts and starts to breed in that water then IMO its happy. End Of really. (when women aint happy they dont put out) HAHA:whistle:

 

[JoePlec]

i'll take that bet Bob, because if the thread carries on the way its going, i will be closing it.
As per the site rules that you all agreed with, argue with the post, not the person, alot of the posts are getting too personal. Some are even baiting members into an arguement, if this continues, infractions will be issued too.

Remember that everyone is entitled to an opinion and we should respect that and not challenge it, i'm all up for a healthy debate, but not when it turns into a ***** fight, so keep it civil and keep it relevant

I personally have seen no examples of this and believe everyone to be concerned about the fish only.

 

[macvsog23]

So are we saying a fish cannot adapt to live in these conditions? Because i know that to be 100% false. If a fish adapts and starts to breed in that water then IMO its happy. End Of really. (when women aint happy they dont put out) HAHA:whistle:

Sadly this is not true
From a biological point all organisms’ must reproduce for one reason to enable the organisms to dominate the planet.
A tree will Bloom (Reproduce) when attacked (Pruned)
Organisms’ reproduce at the two extremes’ under threat to keep the species alive or optimum conditions i.e. to keep the species main aim alive (World Domination)
And the statement about women is sadly not funny or true