Use of rain water in fishtanks?

[jessonthenet]

Is it safe and if not why?

 

[scatz]

depends on the area you live in, where its collected from, what its picked up on the way to the water butt etc.

I use rain water all the time, but i live in a small town surrounded by coutryside and the sea with no airports, busy roads or industries.
it can only be collected from the roof if you have natural slate tiles, not man made ones as trace elements will still get washed out every now and then.

the one draw back i have is that rain water is too pure to use on its own, mine tested as 0 nitrate, 0 tds so effectively as good as ro but very unstable as far as ph etc goes, works perfectly when mixed with a little tap water though

 

[macvsog23]

Just as said by Satz it all dependent on the location for me its not worth the risk. if I lived in a deserted polar region with no pollutants I would still not take the risk.

 

[jessonthenet]

Would rain that falls on the Amazon not contain pollutants? What about fish who live in rivers and streams. Also koi kept in ponds wont rain fall in there?

Unfortunately I don't have slate tiles just those ceramic looking wavy ones so probably out the question then. Unless there was an alternative method of collection.

Sometimes risks help people push the boundaries which furthers technology, creates improved methods and new discoveries. I respect advice of experienced fish keepers and certainly wouldn't do anything without consultation, research and weighing up all the pros and cons first.

Thanks for the advice so far, very helpful.

 

[macvsog23]

Would rain that falls on the Amazon not contain pollutants? What about fish who live in rivers and streams. Also koi kept in ponds wont rain fall in there?

Unfortunately I don't have slate tiles just those ceramic looking wavy ones so probably out the question then. Unless there was an alternative method of collection.

Sometimes risks help people push the boundaries which furthers technology, creates improved methods and new discoveries. I respect advice of experienced fish keepers and certainly wouldn't do anything without consultation, research and weighing up all the pros and cons first.

Thanks for the advice so far, very helpful.

Sure rain on ponds and rivers is full of clap just its diluted because the river is bigger than the tank

 

[jessonthenet]

So Scatz said you could add in tap water so would that not be diluting it. I can see me starting a fight here lol.

 

[jessonthenet]

You haven't replied Bob either you have had enough of my stupid posts or you are looking something up right now on the net to shut me up, sorry

I can be such a pain, lol.

Appreciate everyone's opinions. Enough silliness.

 

[scatz]

I know Bob has strong feelings about the use of rain water, and he has a valid arguement in the fact that we have no control over its parameters, and therefore using it to keep fish can be risky, especially if the quality is just assumed

 

[macvsog23]

I know Bob has strong feelings about the use of rain water, and he has a valid arguement in the fact that we have no control over its parameters, and therefore using it to keep fish can be risky, especially if the quality is just assumed

Thank u i was thinking how to put it:wb:

 

[jessonthenet]

Sorry if I seem to not take any views seriously. I do have my own opinions and appreciate others too if even coming across a little silly. I was asking serious questions and do like to test peoples ideas and sometimes question their points of view. I have fully taken on board yours and Bob's thoughts on this issue and will put that together with further research on the matter to help make up my own conclusions.

Thanks very much again for all the responses.

 

[jessonthenet]

Thank u i was thinking how to put it:wb:

No need to bang your head against a wall Bob say exactly what you want to say to me as a love a genuine debate. If you want an intellectual intelligent conversation on this thread you can have one. I promise

 

[jessonthenet]

I know Bob has strong feelings about the use of rain water, and he has a valid arguement in the fact that we have no control over its parameters, and therefore using it to keep fish can be risky, especially if the quality is just assumed

Just to respond to this I will not just be adding rain water to test if it works. I take my fish keeping very seriously and see myself as a responsible fish keeper. I like to further my knowledge in all aspects of fish keeping and like to look at all points of view. I am interested in others experiences so I can learn from them. I would say I do not have a specific area of fish keeping interest and if something is there to learn I will look it up.

I respect all views especially strong ones and understand if something matters to a person and am not just here to take the mickey.

Just have to make that clear.

Jess

 

[Brengun]

I use mostly all rainwater but have to either add buffers or add in 1/2 town water to bring that ph up.

As far as I know its fairly pure as I keep our tank seives well cleaned and I live in a rural area. Should the rainwater not be up to scratch (I do test it for phosphates) I would then have to run it through a filter first but to date its fine and not necessary.

 

[jessonthenet]

I use mostly all rainwater but have to either add buffers or add in 1/2 town water to bring that ph up.

As far as I know its fairly pure as I keep our tank seives well cleaned and I live in a rural area. Should the rainwater not be up to scratch (I do test it for phosphates) I would then have to run it through a filter first but to date its fine and not necessary.

Testing for phosphates is this to do with your marine tank as I heard high phosphates can cause some really bad type of red algae, I think it was red.

I have never tested the phosphates or TDS in my tap water. All I know is that the ph is 7.4 out the tap so must have some minerals in but I have occasionally seen the water go a chalky colour so wonder if possibly the water company could actually be trying to harden the water since my tank will drop to at least 6.8 before all the plants and probably a little lower since the plants came along.

I would probably have to ask my water board about it which is Northumbria water and it all comes from kielder resevoir but not sure what has been picked up by the time it gets here and how many chemicals they decide to add to it.

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kielder_Water"]Kielder Water - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:KielderDam.JPG" class="image"><img alt="" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/73/KielderDam.JPG/240px-KielderDam.JPG"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/7/73/KielderDam.JPG/240px-KielderDam.JPG[/ame]

I know we do have some of the best quality water you can get in Britain and we pay high prices for the privilege. I am on a water meter so am very reluctant to start using RO since there is such a lot of waste water, unless I could use what was left over but I don't have a veggie plot or anything like that.

Rain water just seemed like an option but I don't live rural and so there is the chance of a number of pollutants getting into it.

Nice to here peoples opinions on it though and rain water must be totally different in Australia?

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,
I've always used rain water and I've never had any problems. Like Scatz I live in a rural area of the SW (about 12 miles E of Bath), as well and there isn't much industry to the SW or S of us. The TDS of my rain water is higher than it should be, possibly because of limestone dust/soil in the atmosphere.

Unfortunately I don't have slate tiles just those ceramic looking wavy ones so probably out the question then

Ceramic tiles are fine, tiles have to be hard and impermeable to water or they wouldn't work as tiles.

All tap water has both orthophosphate (PO4-) and an alkali (usually NaOH) added to it, this is to stop the uptake of copper and lead from pipes. The technical term is "PIMS" - phosphate induced metal stabilisation. The use of conc. sodium hydroxide (NaOH) injection to raise the pH of the water, poses particular problems, as you can have alkaline water with no carbonate buffering (measured as dKH), and this lack of buffering means that as soon as the OH- ions in the water are "used up" the pH can crash to very low levels.

We have had a water thread with more details.

<http://www.plecoplanet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8904>

cheers Darrel

 

[jessonthenet]

So would my plants be using up the OH- ions causing it to lose its buffering capacity causing the ph to become unstable as well as the release of CO2 at night time causing the ph to drop further. Is this why it is really important to add fresh water regularly?

I have never heard about which tiles to use for collection of rain water before.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

So would my plants be using up the OH- ions causing it to lose its buffering capacity causing the ph to become unstable as well as the release of CO2 at night time causing the ph to drop further. Is this why it is really important to add fresh water regularly?

It is not so much the plants, they will actually add a bit of stability, but there are processes that are likely to reduce the pH over time. The problem is that the OH- ions are all in solution, there is no reserve, no "buffer", the NaOH, dissolves completely to form Na+ and OH- ions. The pH is a measure of the ratio of OH- ions and H+ ions (H + H + O = H2O) (or other acids and bases expressed as OH- and H+ ions). The easiest way to think of it is that acids are H+ donors and add H+ ions, and alkalis are H+ acceptors and remove H+ ions.

At the ratio of 1:1 H+:OH- the pH is pH7 (really it should be pH-7 (10-7 H+ ions)), more H+ ions are added and pH falls (more H+ added, at pH6 H+ = 10-6).

What the pH doesn't tell you is how much of the OH- and H+ ions there are, in this case there is no reserve of alkaline ions, they are all in solution. As soon as the ratio changes in favour of the H+ ions, there are no alkaline ions in reserve and the ratio can rapidly rise to pH5 (10-5) etc. If you have some dKH as the water becomes more acid more carbonate ions will go into solution and stop the ratio rising, the water is buffered against pH change. You could add more water (with more OH- ions), but it is really difficult to get a balance of OH- and H+ and you are likely to get a wildly oscillating pH value, you really need some buffering.

cheers Darrel

 

[jessonthenet]

Thanks will take a while to get all that but will click eventually. If all else fails I will ask my Dad since I have no grades from school and he has the chemistry A level, not a degree or anything but better than me lol.

I will now have to study that now and remember it all haha think I'll have a coffee first. Could you not talk about biology stuff instead then it would be less complicated.

Ah well here goes!

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,
Sorry everybody that is another really lame explanation of buffering, I know exactly what I want to say, but it never reads quite right when I finish.

When I've got a moment I'll try and do it as a series of diagrams, as they should be easier to follow.

cheers Darrel

 

[jessonthenet]

Wasn't lame just not your fault some others aren't at your level of understanding but we will catch up eventually. Wiki and BBC bitesize to the ready.

Diagrams still welcome.

As much as that sounds sarcastic your info is appreciated.