Help Super Red is Sick! :(

[Ike]

1. A good general description of the symptoms.

I woke up this morning to check on my fish, do a head count, and noticed one of my Super Red BNP is sluggish and pale, pale as in nearly albino.

2. Size of tank and other tankmates.

55g tank

In this tank are 3 male guppies (originally to cycle the tank), 2 beta (1 male 1 female and they have been getting along great), 1 little long fin common BN, 1 Blue Eye L144 type BN, 2 Super Red BN, and a couple snails here and there.

3. Water parameters.

a. Ammonia - ?
b. Nitrite - ?
c. Nitrate - ?
d Hardness - 500ppm+

It's cycled and planted but I haven't tested it in a while.

4. Filtration and water change regime.

a.What filtration do you have running on your tank?

Hydro IV air driven sponge filter, and Rena XP4

b. How often do you do water changes?

weekly or bi-weekly

how much do you change?

20-30%

c. what do you use to remove chlorine/chloramines(if present) and heavy metals?

None

5. Diet.

Algae from tank/rocks, algae wafers from Ken's fish, and cucumbers/zucchini

6. Temperature of tank water

79F sorry don't know the conversion to Celsius

7. Treatments Used already

Nothing but using my net to try to see if he/she was still alive

8. A Pic

I will try to get a pic when I get home tonight, didn't want to pose for me, after prodding a bit he swam beneath the sponge filter so no photo op. Please help!

****** NEW pics posted on pg2******

 

[Lornek8]

How long has the tank been setup?
Are any of the other fish showing any unusual behavior?
Need to get some water parameters. Hardness is pretty hard, has it always been like that?
How big are the various fish?

 

[Ike]

Tank has been up since September.

It is the only fish acting like this.

Hardness has always been like that but that's Arizona :/

guppys and bettas are adults, little common brown LF BNP is less than an inch, and all other BN plecos are ~2" as is the sick one.

Thanks for the reply, I'll take measurements of water params tonight...

 

[Lornek8]

So all other fish are acting normal? Not just like the sick one but unusual in any way at all?
Any new fish additions recently?

 

[Ike]

The betas are the newest members (added last week), I added a 1/4 of a cucumber last night and it seems nearly untouched this morning, this tank is high-light 2+ wpg though and has a good amount of algae for them to eat and I spread the other 3 quarters to my other tanks and they were devoured so I wasn't too worried that it was the cucumber.

 

[Lornek8]

2wpg isn't that high. A large amount of algae (depending on type) points towards highish nitrate levels and/or light being on too long. The average home aquarium cannot develop enough & the right algaes to support plecs so while they may graze chances are it probably provides little towards the nutrition of the plecs. If these plecs typically eat all the veggies you provide I'd take a good look at all of them.

Where did the sick plec spend most of its time in relation to the other plecs?
Being that the tank has 2+wpg I gotta assume its a planted tank. What's the substrate like & how fully planted is the tank? Do you clean the substrate? How & how often?

Could be something that came in with the bettas so just keep an eye out.

 

[Ike]

The sick one was resting on an erect rock on the left side of the tank, and the others were on the glass of the right side of the tank.

It is planted, and has diffused Co2 with a drop checker (green). I should have taken a FTS, I definitely will as soon as I get home. it's not a jungle but it's got 30+ smaller plants.

Substrate is 1 bag of Eco complete, and capped with another bag of black Fluorite Sand.

I don't mess with the substrate for fear of causing an ammonia spike by stirring it up, I only suck out the plant debris at water changes, then refill.

Thank you so much for your replies Lornek8.

 

[Lornek8]

The sick one was resting on an erect rock on the left side of the tank, and the others were on the glass of the right side of the tank.

Is this normally where it rests? I am trying to get a better idea why only one fish might have problems & not the rest. If this one fish spent most of its time in a particular cave then I might tell you to look at the cave & make sure its not collecting detritus.

The others on the glass kinda worries me. In my expereince once plecs are well settled they don't spend a lot of time on the glass. In many cases this points to some sort of a problem, especailly if its not their normal behavior. Again, trying to compare normal behavior to what your seeing now. Plecs on the glass might be normal behavior but when they all are there for extended periods when they normally aren't, thats something to look into.

It is planted, and has diffused Co2 with a drop checker (green). I should have taken a FTS, I definitely will as soon as I get home. it's not a jungle but it's got 30+ smaller plants.

Substrate is 1 bag of Eco complete, and capped with another bag of black Fluorite Sand.

I don't mess with the substrate for fear of causing an ammonia spike by stirring it up, I only suck out the plant debris at water changes, then refill.

Thank you so much for your replies Lornek8.

A situation that can occur is that the substrate goes stale & fish begin to show problems. Often it bottom dwellers first & then sometimes only one as it spends most time in a particular location. However in that you have a planted tank with a fair amount of plants, the plants should keep the substrate aerated so this probably isn't an issue. Also, plants should uptake nitrates as well so that probably isn't an issue either.

 

[Ike]

Well these little guys are very active, and don't have territories per say yet, and cruise the whole tank.

Being that they are so little still, I didn't think to give them caves yet, or wood yet for that matter. Thinking back on it now, I'm going to add a big piece when I get this sorted out, they really only have several rocks, the sponge filter, and plants to hang out on/around right now which might explain the hanging on the glass.

 

[bigbird]

hello, hope you get it sorted out. Even small fish needs a place to hide and feel well. Pieces of wood , rocks in a pile and small caves helps them settle. I would also add and airstone on a timer at night.
You did state in the first mail quote- c. what do you use to remove chlorine/chloramines(if present) and heavy metals?

None

. Does this mean you do not add a water conditioner to remove chlorine etc ?
This will also effect the fish big time as well. cheers jk :thumbup:

 

[Lornek8]

I would also add and airstone, just as a precaution.

Would be kinda counter-productive when running co2, actually so is the sponge filter. Unless you put airstone on a timer & run only at night when plants consume o2.

 

[bigbird]

that is indeed true, misread the mail......would run at night when co2 is off. thks

 

[Ike]

Ok, I ran home for lunch and snapped a few photos, sorry didn't have time to test the water. I realize the sponge is adversely affecting my Co2 but the Rena XP4 was only set up a little before xmas brand new. I had an old cycled HOB running along side the seasoned Sponge filter as well. I just didn't want a mini cycle to happen if I removed the sponge as bio before the canister was seeded. It's probably fine to remove now.

Here's the little guy who's sick.

This is his sibling and they were near Identical this past weekend.

Here's a FTS and a close up on the left and right side.

 

[Ike]

Sorry for double post, Just added pictures ^^^

 

[bigbird]

Hello Ike,

I just think they need a place to hide. Tank is very sparce in my view. Get a cave, make a cheap one from cocunut shell, add some driftwood. Also as Lornek pointed out, CO2 and sponge filter is counterproductive. cheers jk

 

[Ike]

So you think he might just be scared?

 

[bigbird]

what do you add to the water when you do a water change ?

 

[Ike]

Straight tap, about 20% of the tank, and he's the only one affected like this...

 

[zeebo]

Hi Ike, did you q-tank the betas for a few weeks before adding them to this tank ? and perhaps i am wrong, but dont betas fight if more than one, could be stressing other fish. I think other members are on the right track, though, especially the need to add Prime and caves . If you have chlorine and chloramides in your water , Prime would remove it, however i cant see how the other fish ok, but as Lornek said , they should not be hanging on the glass if that is not their natural habit, so water testing is a MUST, and check out the betas to see if they are healthy. Please post ur water tests. good luck ,

Georgie

 

[bigbird]

Hi Ike,

I would strongly suggest that you treat your tap water with something like Prime from Seachem. I do not know what your tap water is like and what you have in it etc, but some fish might not like it. Also I would suggest that you do test the water or get your LFS to do it. Add some caves and wood, this will make them also feel better and safe. let us know cheers jk :thumbup: