Dicrossus filamentosus breeding

[jerry58]

Hi
I posted this on Tropical Fish Forums in a hope to find out info but no answers yet 25 views don't think it will happen.
So I Just wondered if anybody on this forum has bred Dicrossus filamentosus as I have one male and two females that have paired and spawned 3 times they are not in ideal conditions to be successful but I am thinking of setting up a breeding tank just for them as I think it a waste not to give it a go,a ph of between 5 to 7 is going to be hard to maintain if small tank and my area is aprox ph of 8ish.
I don't want to use ph down or any chemicals to keep it down hoping to use ro water.
The tank they are in is at the mo is running at just over ph of 7.5 GH 13(so I know this is to high)and I put the eggs in breeder trap (as last 2 times were eaten)and waited 72 hours and they all went to white slime when I touched them and no good.I have pics and video of the spawning so I know the eggs possibly have a good chance of being viable if in right conditions.
I think with a breeding tank of 20gls I will be able to keep a ph of 6.5 KH of 2 and GH of 6 and hopefully stable but is this low enough to be successful.
Does anybody know how near to the bottom end of the ideal ph I need to maintain to get the eggs to hatch?
Has anybody been successful with them?.
Any comments or constructive criticism are welcome.

Sorry long winded and thanks for taking the time to read.

Jerry

 

[Irene0100]

well done for getting so far.
sorry I have not bred these. I can only suggest perhaps some shrimps on the tank to clean eggs and keep fungus away.
maybe the parents just neeed more practise?
do you use rain water or Ro or anything?

 

[jerry58]

Hi Irene0100

Thanks for replying can't find anyone to give any info,I have read all I can on the net ,but because my zebs have spawned (as you know) it has made me have to sell a few other plecos and rearrange my tanks,the checkered boards are in my 6'x2'x2' tank at the mo as I like them so much and I did not want to sell them,and took a chance but this is where they have laid their eggs 3 times and I have not induced them to start spawning at all.
But they are in with a lot of other fish that would eat the eggs or the fry.But at this time its the female eating them because the eggs were there then I went to get a camera to take a pic and believe it or not she had eaten them all by the time I got back.:yes:
I am just trying to gather as much info as I can before I decide to remake my 4 foot tank into a 1' and a 3' and breed the cichlids in the 1'x15"x20" end and leave the other 3'x15"x20" end for another option for fry.
I don't think the eggs will hatch out in the 6' tank as it is,so if its worth doing I want to give it a go.
They will have a better chance in a tank on their own with better ideal water.
Its going to be down to if I can get the right parameters I'm just trying to find out what I can get away with to give me a chance if you know what I mean :whistle:
I know I'm not going to get anywhere near a PH of 5.:wb:

Jerry

 

[Rabbit]

I would recommend moving them to a smaller tank and using Malachite green as a prophylaxis. This will prevent fungus on the eggs, make sure to lift your oxygen if possible.
HTH

 

[Irene0100]

are your sure she ate them - not just protecting in her mouth or moving site. I had blue rams who moved the eggs every couple of hours to a new site.

 

[Rabbit]

are your sure she ate them - not just protecting in her mouth or moving site. I had blue rams who moved the eggs every couple of hours to a new site.

:goodpost:Thats something i didn't even consider, kribensis etc are notorious for doing this.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,
Congratulations Jerry, they are extremely tricky to breed. There is a very good forum for dwarf cichlids at <http://www.forum.apistogramma.com/index.php>

The eggs won't develop at higher pH, even with a methylene blue or malachite green in it (good thinking, but it is apparently its a physiological, as well as bacterial process), also I tried and avoid any chemicals with Dicrossus, just because they are so sensitive. I tried them in a tank on their own, and I used Java Fern and a potted Amazon sword, but I never managed to hatch any fry. I think it was because I didn't have R.O. and my rainwater is too well buffered.

I asked "ApistoBob" (Bob Wiltshire), and he said you need to get "black water" with a pH below pH5.5, and the really important bit virtually no detectable hardness (10 - 30 microS.). Plants and a sand substrate are useful as well. ((Dicrossus link), I never got fry but they are very small, and need microworms as initially as they may be too small for BBS (that's why I had the Java moss tangle, to provide rotifers etc for the fry).

So you need to use 100% R.O., and to only add oak bark/oak or Indian Almond (Terminalia catappa) or filter through sphagnum Peat. You also need to keep on top of your water changes, as nitrates need to be very low, and pH is unstable due to the lack of buffering.

Bob has his own site <http://www.dwarfcichlid.com/>, and I'd recommend his advice - the bit on Dwarf Cichlid Aquarium Care is relevant to most "tricky" soft water fish.

cheers Darrel

 

[jerry58]

Hi
Well I never!
The eggs did not turn up at any stage but this may well of happened :dk:
There is a lot of fish traffic in the tank (don't help) plus me looking might have made her do this but the other spawns from before are there in the day and evening time but not there in the morning all 3 spawns have been in exactly the same place.
They don't have a lot of hassle in the tank (but might be at lights out time)so they are only in there till I can sort them out,I think the answer is to set up a breeding tank at some point.
The other thing is the transition from the water parameters in 6' tank to them in the breeding tank will have to be done over a long period of time.
All info has to be taken into account before I decide if its viable for me to do.
Do you know what the highest ph can be to successfully breed them?
I have found out a lot more from just talking to you.:yes:

Thank you all for the informative info,very interesting.:thumbup:

For now if they spawn again will keep an eye on them and see what happens at more of a distance.:yes:

Jerry

 

[Irene0100]

well good luck and let us know if you get any more success.

 

[jerry58]

Hi
Ok will keep you posted and if I can sort the video out from Sony HD and get it on Youtube(won't download it think the wrong format.)
I will post it on this thread :thumbup:
Its a shame I can't,as the male is so beautifully colored in it!.
You don't know how nice these fish are till you look at them closely.
They are an absolute gem in the tank.:yes:

Thanks again.

Jerry

 

[Irene0100]

pity,
some still pictures would be nice.

 

[jerry58]

Hi
The pics don't do them justice but here they are and I will still work on the HD video on Youtube.
The female is actually laying eggs in the pic!.
The male looks much more colorful on the video more of a shimmer to the blue-green.

Jerry

 

[jerry58]

Hi
My checkered board have spawned twice since last time I was not quick enough the first but this time I have the eggs in my zeb breeding tank not ideal conditions but nearer than what is in the other tank they spawned in.
The eggs seem to look better than before and what I wanted to ask is how can I remove the unfertile eggs as you can see in the picture.The eggs are so small and I don't know what to use.

They are in at the mo ph 7- kh 2-3 gh 6-7
I know they probably won't hatch but rather than sit and watch them waisting away though I would give it a go no harm done and maybe the next stage If anything comes of it to me setting up a breeding tank.

Do they look good to you or not my eye sight is c**p !!!!!
All I know is I need to remove the bad looking eggs at this point in time.:yes:

Any help very much appreciated.
Jerry

 

[Rabbit]

Have you got any shrimp or snail species? Regardless you need to pop the infected eggs in order to prevent the spread of the infection to the other eggs.
HTH

 

[jerry58]

Hi
Will pop infected eggs asap with pin,it has spread a quite a bit so that should sort that out doesn't matter if only one egg left.
I have assassin snails and trumpet snails to hand are they any use and what do I do next?.
Just to note as a reminder there is baby zebs say 4to5 weeks old in the tank.
Thanks for helping if this does not work this time will use this info and try again next time all added together I might have something happen hopefully.
The first pic was last night this one was tonight a lot worse I think but will give it a go.
Off to pop some eggs!.

Big THANKS.

Jerry

 

[Rabbit]

The snails will remove the dead shell, so best they have access to the clutch.
HTH

 

[jerry58]

Hi
This is what they look like I have got some fine tweezers and took the bad ones I can see away .
Is it looking ok will look again in morn and do the same as this to the bad eggs.
probably till none left LOL.

Jerry

 

[jerry58]

Hi
Just put 3 medium assassins in see how it goes probably eat the lot LOL.

Thanks for the help.

Jerry

 

[jerry58]

Hi
Got in tonight I think the snails have eaten all but 2 eggs maybe this means they were bad ?.
Will leave till tomorrow if not improvement will abort and wait till have the chance to set this tank up at a later date.
Probably might be due to bit to high temp its running at 28+.

Thanks for the help.

Jerry

 

[Andrew]

Jerry
It sounds like the pair are just learning, give them time and they will get it right, and you'll be lucky to have any fungused eggs.
You are just unlucky and have a pair that need to go through a learning curve.