Several questions in 1 swoop!!

ghent_3rd · Jan 9, 2011

Hope these can be answered fairly easily, think this is the best place for them!

I am looking to set-up a 95 litre tank for casual breeding project of some L-260 or the like and have these questions.

a) How important is a bare-bottomed tank? I really don't like them and would like a substrate, even if just a thin layer of pea gravel, sand, or mixture of both

b) I have seen the air powered filters and was wondering if the more of these I add the better? I am going to be running at least 1 internal filter, maybe 2 anyway but thought the more biological filtration the better??

c) Can I use standard slate roofing tiles to make my caves as I have a lot of them knocking about and it would save me a lot of money!!

d) I am unsure what to do with the lighting in the tanks?? I am not too fussed about having amazing lighting as I know it is not imperative for plecs. Should I remove overtank tubes and go for something simpler?

e) How high does the decor need to be, I seen the tank by the Norweigan guy who has the rock and the caves right up the back of the tank for his Zebras and although it looks great how practical is it for a plec tank and is it worthwhile doing that?

f) I want to make sure the plecs I get have the best possible chance to spawn so what's the situarion with having other bottom feeders (corys).I love them as well but would leave them out for the good of the plecs.

Phew, think that is it, look forward to some replies!!

JoePlec · Jan 9, 2011

A) Better to have substrate.

B) Depends how big the tank is and how big the filters are but ideally a filter good enough for water capacity and a powerhead for water movement.

C) Yes you can just give it a good scrub.

D) In my experiance lighting doesnt matter.

E) Anything that forms caves and hiding places and of course pleases your eye.

F) Corys are great tank mates and will clean up the excess food.

PHEW haha

JackGillett · Jan 9, 2011

I am no expert at this As I'm fairly new to Ls myself. bare bottoms are good for ease of cleaning. But they can get a film on them if the water isn't moving over it. Second it is good to have more than one filter and clean them on opposite times so if one clogs up you have a spare. Slate is good to use. I normally leave them dry in the house for 2 weeks then boil them for about an hour before use. Lighting isn't important but if you have bright light you won't see your places as much. I will post more info later as I'm on the iPod touch and it's difficult typing :lol:
Decor desnt have to be high, although shade is a must. Hmm what else?

cores are great for plec tanks and when they spawn it can encourage the plecs to. Hope that helps

bigbird · Jan 9, 2011

Hello my view on the topic.

1. Some say yes to substrate some say no, I have sand and my ls love it.
2. depending on tank size, but I have 2 external cannisters and one internal powerhead for water movement, for all of my 4 to 5ft tanks, including 2 heaters in each.
3. be warry of some roof tiles, they may be cheap but some are coated and have been sprayed.
4. lighting irrelevant
5. there are usually two arguements for this. a- tank set up just with caves and some driftwood and maybe plants. this for easy of fry removal b- set up tank with rocks cvaes, driftwood etc. I have my tank full of rocks, caves of all forms, driftwood and some java fern.
6. Agree that corys are good tanks makes and use them is all tanks.

A lot is what you read up on and think is best. cheers jk :thumbup:

ghent_3rd · Jan 10, 2011

All very helpful, thanks. I'm at work at the minute but would just like to clarify a couple of points when I get home!

dw1305 · Jan 10, 2011

Hi all,
I wouldn't go bare bottom unless you are really good at water management, a substrate adds biological filtration potential and usually makes water parameters more stable. With bare bottom you also need to clean the bottom fairly regularly (with a green nylon scrim or similar).

Some say yes to substrate some say no, I have sand and my ls love it.

I like coarse sand/fine grit as well, if the tank is planted and/or you have MTS sand is fine. You don't need to vacuum through it, just suck the poo and rubbish off the top. If you have a lot of flow you might find that fine gravel is better as the sand tends to blow around the tank. I always have a sponge on the intake for externals so sand in the filter isn't a problem for me. I now tend to mix coarse sand and fine gravel, and then the current deposits the sand in the areas where the flow is lower and leaves the gravel where there is more flow. If there is still a bare spot of glass on the bottom I put a rock, or some cobbles, there, so it is just like a natural river.

I have seen the air powered filters and was wondering if the more of these I add the better? I am going to be running at least 1 internal filter, maybe 2 anyway but thought the more biological filtration the better??

Probably best to have a read through this: <http://plecoplanet.com/?page_id=829>.

Can I use standard slate roofing tiles to make my caves as I have a lot of them knocking about and it would save me a lot of money!!

If they are real slate slates? yes you can.

I am unsure what to do with the lighting in the tanks?? I am not too fussed about having amazing lighting as I know it is not imperative for plecs. Should I remove overtank tubes and go for something simpler?
e) How high does the decor need to be, I seen the tank by the Norwegian guy who has the rock and the caves right up the back of the tank for his Zebras and although it looks great how practical is it for a plec tank and is it worthwhile doing that?

I'd have a light good enough for plant growth. Personally I always keep planted tanks with lots of structure, this is mainly because it makes maintaining water quality simpler, but also because more cover makes the fish feel more secure. The amazing tanks belong to Haarvard Stoere. Have a look at: <http://plecoplanet.com/?page_id=446> for a planted tank that still allows you to catch your fry etc.

I want to make sure the plecs I get have the best possible chance to spawn so what's the situarion with having other bottom feeders (corys).I love them as well but would leave them out for the good of the plecs.

As everyone else has said Corys may well help. Probably best to have a look at the "High temperature Cory" thread <http://www.plecoplanet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3305>.

cheers Darrel

ghent_3rd · Jan 10, 2011

Thanks very much, some amazing posts there!! Although I am not looking to get all this set-up for a good 3-4 months I believe good planning is the key to making all this work. :thumbup:

Darrel, could you post a link on the sand and gravel that you would use and where to get it from please??

I will probably go without plants but still over-filter the tanks as I want to keep it habitat correct and I know that the plecs I am condsidering do not really come from planted areas but certainly something worth considering for the future. Love the Java fern on the sponges. :drool:

This is probably what I am thinking in terms of set-ups:

55 litre 2 foot tank equipment

- Overhead light in hood
- Internal filter
- Additional filtration from air-driven sponge filter
- Standard heater supplied

Stocking

- Group of tetra
- 2/3 BN's, quite small at present (1 or 2 inches at most)
- 5 or 6 bronze cories

Decor

- Bogwood and slate caves
- Sand and gravel mix
- Plain black background ( do not think tank big enough to have lots of wood and rocks piled high)

36"x15"x12" equipment

- Overtank luminaire
- 2 x internal filters (1 totally dedicated to biological filtration)
- Additional air driven filter
- 2 x heaters (need advice on size)

Stock

- Group of tetra
- Group of plec (idelly L-260!)
- Group of corydoras

Decor

- Totally driven around the plecs, so probably homemade caves and collected wood
- Sand and gravel mixture

Vision 260

TBC

Do you think there will be any issues with these plans at all or, assuming I am patient with it all, it iwll all be OK??

I want to do fishless cycle on the bottom tank as the top 1 is already up and running. Once I have fully gone through the cycle could I literally add 5 x L260, 8 Cories and 8 tetra all in one go???

JoePlec · Jan 10, 2011

ghent_3rd said:
Thanks very much, some amazing posts there!! Although I am not looking to get all this set-up for a good 3-4 months I believe good planning is the key to making all this work. :thumbup:

Darrel, could you post a link on the sand and gravel that you would use and where to get it from please??

I will probably go without plants but still over-filter the tanks as I want to keep it habitat correct and I know that the plecs I am condsidering do not really come from planted areas but certainly something worth considering for the future. Love the Java fern on the sponges. :drool:

This is probably what I am thinking in terms of set-ups:

55 litre 2 foot tank equipment

- Overhead light in hood
- Internal filter
- Additional filtration from air-driven sponge filter
- Standard heater supplied

Stocking

- Group of tetra
- 2/3 BN's, quite small at present (1 or 2 inches at most)
- 5 or 6 bronze cories

Decor

- Bogwood and slate caves
- Sand and gravel mix
- Plain black background ( do not think tank big enough to have lots of wood and rocks piled high)

36"x15"x12" equipment

- Overtank luminaire
- 2 x internal filters (1 totally dedicated to biological filtration)
- Additional air driven filter
- 2 x heaters (need advice on size)

Stock

- Group of tetra
- Group of plec (idelly L-260!)
- Group of corydoras

Decor

- Totally driven around the plecs, so probably homemade caves and collected wood
- Sand and gravel mixture

Vision 260

TBC

Do you think there will be any issues with these plans at all or, assuming I am patient with it all, it iwll all be OK??

I want to do fishless cycle on the bottom tank as the top 1 is already up and running. Once I have fully gone through the cycle could I literally add 5 x L260, 8 Cories and 8 tetra all in one go???

NO add a few fish each week. apart from that just remortgage your house and BEG someone to sell L260 haha.. good luck mate.

ghent_3rd · Jan 11, 2011

:lol: I am gutted as a few years ago I seen so many L-260's it was unreal!!

dw1305 · Jan 11, 2011

Hi all,

Darrel, could you post a link on the sand and gravel that you would use and where to get it from please??

Ideally you need "Silica sand", swimming pool filter sand (also sold for fluidised bed sand filters). I bought "8/16 mesh size", and that is about perfect. A cheaper option is "Play sand" from Tesco, Argos etc., and it is OK, but has finer grains. For gravel I used a fine grade of flint gravel, the one I had was sold as "chick grit", but you would need to make sure it was 100% flint and didn't contain any oyster shell etc.

If you don't mind paying for it "Unipac Zambezi" is about the right mix of sand and gravel. As you don't have any plants it can be a thin layer. Unipac also sell 25Kg bags of sand reasonably cheaply as well, but it is a bit fine.

A "Koi" place might be the cheapest bet, like this: <http://www.boddingtonkoi.com/silica-sand_3143.htm> you could use that on its own.

I want to do fishless cycle on the bottom tank as the top 1 is already up and running. Once I have fully gone through the cycle could I literally add 5 x L260, 8 Cories and 8 tetra all in one go???

& JoePlec wrote

NO add a few fish each week.

I'd agree with JoePlec, add a few at a time, probably starting with the Tetras. I always have plants because they make maintenance of water quality easier and give you more room for error, but plenty of people don't and they breed top quality fish, you just have to be very good with your water changes.

cheers Darrel

macvsog23 · Jan 11, 2011

L260 is now on the shipping list aÂ£90 each
Aquajardine have L411 at Â£20 each right now a poor mans L260 but These will start to jump in price soon.

ghent_3rd · Jan 11, 2011

Grrrr, can't believe when I bought L-260 they were selling for Â£25 and there was about 10-15 in the tank!!! I have had a look at the Zambezi gravel and for how much I would ned paying for silica sand, probably not using a lot of it, I think I will go for the Zambezi, looks very good. I will only want a thin layer in the tanks anyway so will not use anywhere near 25kg I don't think although the Vision 260 that I have is quite big I suppose.

Just planning everything now for a bit of a spend on All Pond Solutions whilst they have the sale on!!

If I wanted to use 2 heaters on a 100 litre and 2 heaters on a 260 litre tank, then what would be the best combination to use???

ghent_3rd · Jan 15, 2011

Help on the previous post would be appreciated please! Any ideas??

JoePlec · Jan 15, 2011

2 x 100w
2 x 300w

Thats what i would do

ghent_3rd · Jan 15, 2011

Okie doke, I have 2 x 100 watt heaters already so that's OK and I have just checked and the Vision 260 comes with a 200 watt heater as standard and I have 2 of those so think I am going to do that.

ghent_3rd · Jan 15, 2011

If I am looking to have the plec tanks mentioned, I know I will be potentially looking a high flow and heavier filtration. So with that I am buying a All Pond Solutions 2000lph external filter with uv bulb which will turn the tank over about 7 times per hour. Alongside this I am thinking of adding another 1200lph using an internal filter or a powerhead. This will turn over the tank about 12 times per hour.

My question really is whether I should use an internal filter and have even more biological media added to the internal or just use a powerhead which will be less intrusive in the tank, use the same energy as the internal but obviously won't be adding any filtration. Whether I will actually need anymore filtration is another question as the external is rated for a 1000 litre tank, mine is only 260 litre!!!

Answers on a postcard please!!!

JoePlec · Jan 15, 2011

That is completely up to you mate.. Most people run 2 filters and clean them alternate times the advantage is more filtration and a back up should anything happen to your main filter. The disadvantage is having it visable inside your tank.

ghent_3rd · Jan 15, 2011

Hmmmmm, think I will probably end up going for the extra filtration then. I'm sure I'll be able to sort something with the decor to do a little hiding.

dw1305 · Jan 16, 2011

Hi all,

I should use an internal filter and have even more biological media added to the internal or just use a powerhead which will be less intrusive in the tank, use the same energy as the internal but obviously won't be adding any filtration.

I'd go for the "Powerhead / sponge" combination. I keep a "spare" sponge filter in all the tanks, it gives you some back up if you have filter failure. Have a look at this post for some more details <>http://www.plecoplanet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8493

cheers Darrel

ghent_3rd · Jan 16, 2011

Would this powerhead be able to be attached on top of one of the sponge filters??

http://www.allpondsolutions.co.uk/submersible-aquarium-powerhead-1200-l-h-sp1200-4922-0.html

Several questions in 1 swoop!!

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