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  #1  
Old 28-05-13, 06:17
French51 French51 is offline
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Hair algea (I think heeeeeeeelp!!!)

Hi all lately I seem to have lots of this growing in my tank I think it's hair algea is there any way to remove this the lights are on in tank for about 6 hours aday and I do around 35% water change per week which includes gravel cleaner and in running internal and external filter all levels are perfect i just don't understand how it keeps growing :-( please help me get rid of it!!
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  #2  
Old 28-05-13, 08:25
pauldoit pauldoit is offline
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In fresh water systems as opposed to marine systems, phosphate is generally the limiting nutrient for algal blooms. You could try reducing the phosphate concentrations by getting some of that phos gone stuff. Or out compete the algae with more plants. Or dose with more iron if you have a fair amount of susbstrate to trap the phosphate at the anoxic/oxic interface. Or get some red cherry shrimp (they keep my hair algae right down). Or feed less. Theres a couple ive forgotten...
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Old 28-05-13, 09:49
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beencees beencees is offline
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If you're dosing with ferts you need to reduce the amount. If not then you can double dose with Seachem Flourish Excel or another liquid carbon which will kill it although probably not permanently. You can also use 5 or 10% hydrogen peroxide directly on it which will kill it and not harm the other plants or fish. You can do this in the tank or if the affected areas are removable, eg on driftwood, then you can just take them out and do it and then put them back in.
Cherry shrimp wont normally do much unless they have absolutely nothing else to eat.
HTH.
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Old 28-05-13, 10:33
French51 French51 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beencees View Post
If you're dosing with ferts you need to reduce the amount. If not then you can double dose with Seachem Flourish Excel or another liquid carbon which will kill it although probably not permanently. You can also use 5 or 10% hydrogen peroxide directly on it which will kill it and not harm the other plants or fish. You can do this in the tank or if the affected areas are removable, eg on driftwood, then you can just take them out and do it and then put them back in.
Cherry shrimp wont normally do much unless they have absolutely nothing else to eat.
HTH.
I dont use ferts as iv only got java fern in the tank so i didnt think it needed it to do well, so i read that if u blackout tank for 3 days this helps so iv covered tank this morning and will leave it covered for 3 days then try some flourish excel, will my apple snail be ok if i use flourish excel?? thanks for you suggestions i will give them ago. Fingers crossed

Also i think pauldoit had good idea about adding more plants gonna grab some more plants after tank blackout

Last edited by French51; 28-05-13 at 10:47. Reason: Made mistake
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Old 28-05-13, 15:53
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Irene0100 Irene0100 is offline
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when i get a lot of furry algae I add easy carbo which allows the plants to absorb the nutriants and leaves less for the algea so it dies out.
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  #6  
Old 29-05-13, 20:43
hinchles hinchles is offline
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Algae is NOT caused by phosphates in any way/shape or form

Killing it / stopping it growing means you need to make your normal plants grow faster than the algae. The limiting factor for plant growth is 99% of the time CO2! Either injected or added via liquid carbon (easy carbo etc) as already mentioned.

If not you can scrape/trim it off but its a loosing battle. I personally put in a c.siamenses let it eat all the algae then put him back in his normal tank. The algae is kinda ugly lucking but won't harm anything.

Suggest you go read some of the planted tank forums there's some massive discussions on algae, causes and research etc by lots of people with lots more knowledge about plants and algae specifically not just fish keeping. http://www.ukaps.org/forum/ is probably your best bet

Last edited by hinchles; 29-05-13 at 20:46.
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Old 30-05-13, 04:40
pauldoit pauldoit is offline
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Excellent, some debate on the role of phosphates and algal growth.
I've been taught by some of Australia's experts on freshwater chemistry and ecology and they summarized the broad and current knowledge on algae blooms by saying that phosphate was the limiting factor. If you effectively remove or drastically lower the phosphate concentration to the point where there is competition between the algae and plants, the algae cannot compete with the plants for it and die out. No mention of CO2 being the limiting factor. I imagine that boosting plant mass by CO2 injection actually gives the plants an ability to grow rapidly and much faster than algae and out compete the algae for nutrients, such as phosphorous. But if you have some scientific literature available I’d love to update my knowledge, after all learning is, I find, one of the most rewarding things in life. I subscribe to the scientific reasoning behind controlled experiments and the process of peer-reviewing scientific epistemology, and perhaps the scientific literature is the best place to look rather than internet forums. If I’ve got it wrong and Monash University has it wrong, then I’ll go and have a chat to the lecturers and say you’ve got it all wrong and because of that I looked like an idiot on the plecoplanet forum.
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Old 30-05-13, 08:42
hinchles hinchles is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pauldoit View Post
Excellent, some debate on the role of phosphates and algal growth.
I've been taught by some of Australia's experts on freshwater chemistry and ecology and they summarized the broad and current knowledge on algae blooms by saying that phosphate was the limiting factor. If you effectively remove or drastically lower the phosphate concentration to the point where there is competition between the algae and plants, the algae cannot compete with the plants for it and die out. No mention of CO2 being the limiting factor. I imagine that boosting plant mass by CO2 injection actually gives the plants an ability to grow rapidly and much faster than algae and out compete the algae for nutrients, such as phosphorous. But if you have some scientific literature available I’d love to update my knowledge, after all learning is, I find, one of the most rewarding things in life. I subscribe to the scientific reasoning behind controlled experiments and the process of peer-reviewing scientific epistemology, and perhaps the scientific literature is the best place to look rather than internet forums. If I’ve got it wrong and Monash University has it wrong, then I’ll go and have a chat to the lecturers and say you’ve got it all wrong and because of that I looked like an idiot on the plecoplanet forum.
They've got it wrong I'm afraid One of the moderators on here (Darrel) is quote a specalist in water chemistry who can no doubt provide links to the actual peer reviewed scientific papers.

http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/b...0/#post-288373
http://www.ukaps.org/forum/search/15...e+algae&o=date

Hundreds of posts many containing proper scientific papers by people who research and work in the water and horticultural environments.

People mistakingly put it down to PO4 because algae does better in poorly balanced conditions and so out competes the normal plants for growth.
If we assume the plants have enough base minerals in the water column to grow at whatever rate they want to then the limiting factor becomes CO2.
Limit CO2 the plants use up what minerals they need then stop growing. Algae requires less CO2 and so uses up all the excess minerals. Algae will always out compete normal plants!

Now in your normal low tech undosed planted tank with no CO2 injected/added then the plants will hardly grow at all but the algae will grow like a trooper. All that plant food your fish are putting out has to go some where, the plants don't have enough carbon to grown themselves but the algae has more than enough so floods the tank.

Load the tank up with CO2/liquid carbon and then plants will start growing and the algae will vanish.

(Note: marine environments are slightly different which is probably what your teacher friends are talking about when they talk about algae blooms rather than freshwater)

Last edited by hinchles; 30-05-13 at 08:44.
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  #9  
Old 30-05-13, 10:12
pauldoit pauldoit is offline
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Thanks for the info. We are all on different parts of the learning curve. The best scientists once thought that the earth was flat.... They were wrong.
Maybe you can help me fast track my learning. So when you load up the plants with CO2 why does the algae vanish?
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  #10  
Old 30-05-13, 10:20
pauldoit pauldoit is offline
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Ok now I'm getting confused... I've been spurred on to procrastinate on doing an end of term take home exam and do some research on why phosphates get blamed for algal growth and I keep on coming across stuff like this
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releas...-uoa082212.php

Published in a high impact factor journal... what is going on here. Is there an argument in the research community over the role that phosphorous plays?
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