L397 bloat?

Kleinz

Member
Feb 12, 2012
7
0
1
Perth
So I moved a couple of juvenile (7cm) L397 from their growout tank to a leuco/severum tank a few weeks ago.

They have been eating the wood (I presume), and I put zucchini peel in there which they eat. They never come out and eat the leuco food.

Tank is 270 liters, I think. Water tests all tickety-boo. specs are pretty much the same as their last tank, though the gH is a tad harder.

Tank is overfiltered with a pro 3 2075 and large sponge. No spikes.

pH 7.5ish nitrate 20 temp is 26 GH 180 kH 120

One fish is OK, the other one may have a problem. I have caught it out and stuck it in a frysaver with a shelled pea or two, though I think we are way past that. Everything else in the tank is fine.

The wood is all well soaked. I think new wood type it is eating or stress from the change. maybe...


Suggestions as to possible treatment?

Also, the pics displayed fine in preview but think they are not displaying now, are they? What's wrong?

[ame="http://s17.photobucket.com/user/Kleinzeit/media/IMG_7578_zps23b89fcd.jpg.html"]IMG_7578_zps23b89fcd.jpg Photo by Kleinzeit | Photobucket[/ame]

[ame="http://s17.photobucket.com/user/Kleinzeit/media/IMG_7574_zpsc04f930a.jpg.html"]IMG_7574_zpsc04f930a.jpg Photo by Kleinzeit | Photobucket[/ame]
 
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ccole

Member
Jan 15, 2011
1,163
1
36
norfolk
hi there

O my dear god, that poor thing!!!

What is the complete diet day to day that you keep them on?? Do you only give them the peel? What is the pleco tab/ veg ratio??

I dont think she is going to make it......

you can go to you vet and they can prescribe a chemical for fish euthanasia.

This poor fella.
Most times, 99% it is to do with poor diet or poor water or a combination.

The phot's work fine if you click on the link. I think it's because you are using photo bucket but i haven't been on here for a while so am our of practice!
 

foti

Member
Apr 20, 2010
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Sydney AUS 2206
Wow
Sorry about your fish I would say diet is fine this is a
disease!

"dropsy"

Not sure how it occurrs but I believe it's contagious and I'm also
unsure on how to treat it?

Google and read
Good luck
 

bigbird

Pleco Profiles Moderator - RIP FRIEND
Sep 9, 2010
6,306
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Sydney, AUSTRALIA
maybe he ate too much protein of the other fish. what are you feeding the whole tank, what other fish do you have in the tank and how long has he been like that. He looks bad and I would try to do the best you can in the Q tank. I always would be wary mixing wood eaters with tetras and other non wood eating fish, as wood eaters tend to eat everything causing bloat and long term stomach issues. sorry cheers jk :thumbup:
 

ccole

Member
Jan 15, 2011
1,163
1
36
norfolk
Wow
Sorry about your fish I would say diet is fine this is a
disease!

"dropsy"

Not sure how it occurrs but I believe it's contagious and I'm also
unsure on how to treat it?

Google and read
Good luck


Didnt think this was dropsy as the scales are not raised?
 

Brengun

Global Moderators
Staff member
Apr 22, 2009
5,041
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61
Burrum Heads, Queensland, Australia
My L397 will often spawn in high ph 5 to low 6's.
Your 7.4 ph is on the rather high side. 26c is ok. 28c is better.

I would say your fish has gorged itself on particles of the other fishes foods when the current moved it under the driftwood cover, making its diet a complete alteration.
Its like eat your vegetables kid or here, have some lollies. L397 will go for the lollies and pay for it dearly.

If it survives, don't feed it at all for a few weeks. Let that belly go down and only feed wood and peas in minute amounts. It takes months to recover internally.
 

Bigjohnnofish

Global Moderators
Staff member
Apr 15, 2010
1,399
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Perth, Western Australia
i have had a 397 fry escape frysaver and go into a hypan tank where it hid from me till it got big and couldnt hide no more... the tank was fed frozen brine shrimp and bloodworms and daphnia 100% of the time and the 397 never bloated and it grew quite quick also... so im deducing protein in a 397's diet isnt a problem...
and my ph is always 7.2-7.4 also so im not in favour of ph being an issue either...

i dont have the answer but im eliminating a few possible causes from previous experience...

thinking it maybe just something affecting the individual fish as other 397's show no problems.... maybe it has an internal condition that it has carried for some time and the increase in food has blocked its pooper valve where as before it was getting a restricted diet and it wasnt a problem.....

anyway how is the fish... still with us?
 

Kleinz

Member
Feb 12, 2012
7
0
1
Perth
There seems to be no change in condition. It is reasonably active in the Q tank and shows no other sign of distress. It is just rather awkward with that shape is all.

Diet before current tank was : wood, zucchini, pumpkin, pleco logs, algae wafers, a bit of Sera flora flake, and possibly the odd shrimp, as there were some in the tank.

In the new tank it was the same except no wafers/logs. The eartheaters got NLS pellets and Aquarian shrimp pellets. I do not believe the 397's got any significant amount of these, as the eartheaters are extremely efficient sifters of the substrate and the 397 are never active under the lights.

I rather suspect instead that it was stress from moving tanks that triggered this.There is one other 397 and 2 small pepps in the tank and they are perfectly normal.

I treated with epsom salts to no effect. Considering DMZ or some other.

I honestly don't expect it to make it but it is worth a try. When handled, the swelling feels quite fluid. it is certainly not all food. I hypothesize that there is a gut obstruction or that somehow it is folded much like a hose. My treatment after trying the peas is to feed practically nothing and see if it reduces at all.
 
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Kleinz

Member
Feb 12, 2012
7
0
1
Perth
Update:

After a few days of no food/no poo, it started getting lumpy: The pressure was starting to pull skin/muscle and bone apart from each other.

I decided I had to act.

I formed a hypothesis that whatever originally caused this condition, what was killing the fish now was the pressure from the fluid in the abdominal cavity crushing organs and preventing their proper function, as well as likely causing a rupture very soon.

I decided that this had to be remedied first and foremost, and that infection and disease were now secondary considerations.

I went and got an insulin syringe from the chemist and very carefully, so as to puncture the cavity wall but not the organs, drew fluid out of the cavity. It was mostly clear. Perhaps a slight greenish tinge. I ended up drawing out 20cc- a phenomenal amount for a fish of 6-7cm. The fish did not squirm and the job was quite easy. I have cut up thousands of fish in my life, so my aim was good. If I had to do it again, I would use the same needle, but a bigger capacity syringe, so I would only have to make one puncture. I didn't anticipate this beforehand and had to make four.

The fish was released back into the Q tank, which was dosed with melafix and pimafix and left to sulk a few days. There was a lot of loose skin, and it did not eat.

Now, about a fortnight later, it is undeniably eating wood again , as the poo attests, and also (I think) bits of sera flora flake. The shape has returned to normal. There is no sign of infection. I will keep it another week or so in the Q tank and then return it to a regular tank.

The cause is still far from clear, but I am now thinking the fish may well recover.

I post this that it might be of use to someone else.



I think maybe a male?

It's pretty pale in this photo as it does not like being examined or being in a bucket.
 
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Kleinz

Member
Feb 12, 2012
7
0
1
Perth
Well, a month later and I think my gamble paid off. The L397 in question is now all tickety-boo and munching away on 397 kinds of food. To look at it, you'd think it was never unwell.

So there you have it. A problem and a treatment. Admittedly, with a sample size of one, I can't vouch for it, but if you are desperate it may be worth a try.