L-104 fry keeps dying out.

Dear all.

Hoping you can help,

My L-104's keep breeding like rabbits, almost every 2/3 weeks, only for me to see my babies dying off in the space of 2-3 days after i see them out and about.

also wondering if the parents are being disturbed as some times, babies still have the yolk sack when they get kicked out, other times almost no yolk sack.

Tested the water and water seems fine, but i understand test strips are not very accurate so will try and take the water to my local LFS to test.

I wonder if the fry is dying out due to overstock,
I cannot gravel vac as there is always fry and since the tank is packed with wood, I cannot see which cave the fry is coming out from and preempt,
by putting the cave in a fry saver which would enable me to carry out gravel vac.

My Tank setup is as below:

Jewel Vision 180
Heaps of wood of all types, "soft & Hard"
6000 litre per hour powerhead for current,
Heater set for 28 C fluctuates to 27-29
External Fluval 405
Large air stone.
2 wooden caves per fish.

Feeding on JMC catfish pellets, courgettes and Tetra algae wafers.

Tank stocked as below:

6x 1.5 to 2" inch L-002
10x L-104 adults
2x LDA001

The fry dying really upsets me every time, hope you guys can help as i am at a loss here, tried everything.

Next I will try and do a big water change, remove all the wood to gravel vac the entire bottom, reduce the stock and leave only the 104's perhaps reduce the numbers as well, thinking of leaving 4 females and 2 males only.

Hoping that reducing the stock will help as since i cant normally gravel vac will depend on water changes to control the nasties.

Your thought will be much appreciated.

Will post pictures of the setup once i get home.

Regards and thanks to all that take the time to read and help.

Are the JMC catfish pellets quite high in protein? Leave off feeding those while fry are small. It could be bloating them.
Add a bit of crushed veg flake so the fry can catch a meal on the current.

If fry are out with egg sacks they can run into things and injure themselves. Also if caught out in the open their sacks make a tasty meal.

Put a rock or wood or slate down near to dads cave but only a mm or two above the bottom so they can slot in under there and hide.

Dear Brengun

Many thanks for the swift reply.

Will try and withhold the JMC catfish pellets whilst there is fry in the tank,

it has, very high protein content.

In regards to fry having somewhere to hide, the tank is riddled with wood, i thought that might suffice but no harm in trying, will uplift all the caves by a few mm and see what happens.

You might be right about the fry getting injured etc as i found a few dead with the yolk sack burst open...I also went ahead and moved the L-002's and LDA001's out of the tank so the 104's can have a bit more privacy.

Also the tiger plecos I have, I bought from a guy that had several species of L numbers in the same tank, even he didn't know who the parents were and that they might be hybrids, L168/L002 they do look odd for L-002's and if they really have any L-168 in them I am sure they wouldn't mind a meaty snack.. moved them out of the breeding tank just for safety.

I am attaching a few pictures of my setup for your reference, feel free to comment if there is something i should change to increase my chances of success.

Thank you so much.





Regards

Dear all

One more question if I may, I use lead strip plant holders to hold the vegetables submerged in my tanks, could lead poisoning be a contributing factor to my fry dying off?

Thanks in anticipation.

Regards

Hi, Good morning all.

Does anyone use plant lead weight strips to hold vegetables down?

Also, what type of filter media do you use?

At the moment I am running a Fluval 405:
-2 levels of ceramic noodles
-1 lvl of Activated Carbon
-1 lvl water polishing filter floss.

Should i be using Purigen in my breeding tank?

Thanks in advance

Hi all,
The "lead" plant weights aren't made of lead, so I don't think that is the problem.

I'm not a great fan of coarse gravel, I wonder if it bacteriological problems because you can clean the gravel? I like "pool filter sand" as a substrate, you don't need a thick layer and the uneaten food etc sits on top so you can siphon it out.

I'm also a real plant fan, I know they aren't to every-ones taste, but they make water management easier.

We have an article which describes an easy method of growing plants "Java Fern Planted on Sponges" <http://plecoplanet.com/?page_id=446>.

If you fancy a go at it I have plenty of Java Fern you can have for the cost of P&P.

cheers Darrel

Dear Darrel

Many thanks for your reply above, will definitely do some research into it.

It is very kind of you to try and help with the plants, thank you so much,

Will also do some digging around and decide.

PS. what kind of filter media you use in your external filters?

Thanks in advance

Hi all,
I about 1/2 to 3/4 fill the filter body with any and all out of ceramic/sintered glass rings, Eheim "coco-pops", Floating cell media, Alfagrog, PPI10 sponge etc.
It doesn't really matter what you use as long as flow isn't impeded,

I put a fairly large pre-filter sponge on the intake. You can buy an Eheim pre-filter, "EHEIM part No 4004320", or you can make your own.

Have a look at this thread for more detail: <http://www.plecoplanet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12774>.

cheers Darrel

Dear Darrell

Once again thank you so much for your advice,

I might buy a few more kg's of ceramic rings as my filter trays are only half full.

Kind regards

If that is a power head top left side in the pics, put a bit of thicker wood or slate on the floor under it. It is possible sometimes for the uplift to catch egg sack wrigglers and suck them up. Doesn't often happen but it can.
If you are changing or removing gravel, do it gradually over a week or so or you will shock the cycle.

Dear Brengun

Well noted, for now I decided to not change the gravel at all and instead to try and uplift the caves as you've suggested, will also try and plant java moss, I heard it is good for fry to hide in and eat of the microorganisms that grow on it.

will try and go for a moss carpet, don't know how well that agrees with panaques but i guess i'll soon find out, I guess it cannot harm them.

Regards

use the anubias plants on driftwood. also looks stunning and fine. good luck with your new tank cheers jk :thumbup:

Thank you JK

Will make that breeding tank a palace for my panaque babies

And then post pics.

Regards

What do you keep your ph at? Just wondering for mine thanks


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My water is very bad, i pre-filter prior to adding to the tank and pH is around 8.

Regards

Ok mine likes to stay low bc of all the driftwood but ive been slowly raising it


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Are you feeding low protein algae wafer.

i have used the 'lead' weight without problems. that tank looks nice. I would def try and lower the ph if you can. add a little blackwater extract (I dont use the whole dose on the bottle but a bit helps to add minerals the fish like.)

Hi all

I have yet another question.

One of the females spawned with my subdominant male for the first time and he is clearly a nooby at this

he kicked out all the eggs whilst trying to fan them,

I managed to siphon them out and raise them myself up until now...

My question is, the egg sack is almost gone and I am wondering if I should introduce a bit of soft wood to the fry saver and also how to feed Sera flora,

is it ok to just put one or 2 flakes for 8 fry? Should I crush the flakes into small pieces or leave them whole?

Should I be feeding cucumber/courgette from the beginning or introduce it later?

When I had prior spawns I hoped the fry would scavenge food and eat the same as the parents,

This time around I would like to leave nothing to chance, any help with feeding regime etc is very welcome.

Regards