reddish/pinkish gills on arcuatus

Andrew_x

Andrew_x

Member
Oct 11, 2009
49
0
6
Kansas City, MO
just did a check of water params:

amm - 0

nitrite - 0

nitrate - 10 ish, maybe a little above

ph - 6.5

water temp - 81F


dunno what it could be. they're very active except for one, he's been getting worse it seems over the past couple days. first time it happened it was an ammonia spike, but got that taken care of and it's been over a month. it's a well established tank, been going for about 3 years now.

will add some pics shortly.

any ideas?


thanks,
andrew

best pic i could get:



noticed the cloudy eye. would that make for a bacterial infection?
 
Last edited:
D

Doodles

Retired Staff
Apr 8, 2009
8,786
2
36
Could be, cloudy eyes are usually the result of poor water conditions at some point, ammonia can cause cloudy eyes as it burns.

How high did the ammoinia get? and did you get nitrites too after?
 
Gem400

Gem400

Member
May 18, 2009
1,334
0
36
Barnsley,UK
Doodles said:
Could be, cloudy eyes are usually the result of poor water conditions at some point, ammonia can cause cloudy eyes as it burns.

How high did the ammoinia get? and did you get nitrites too after?
Click to expand...
I agree with doodles, the red gills can also be the result of ammonia, I'm not that great with fish ailments but I'd up the aeration and treat with melafix as the fish may now be suffering from a bacterial infection.

Cheers
Gemma
 
Andrew_x

Andrew_x

Member
Oct 11, 2009
49
0
6
Kansas City, MO
don't recall a nitrite spike afterwards, even though i expected one. used an ammonia detoxifier and that took care of it rather quickly. ammonia ppm was .25 ppm, maybe a tad higher. i dunno if adding the cories to the tank caused the spike or not. it's always been a very stable tank, even when the a 7" piranha was in there before it was converted to a community tank about a month prior to the spike.

i know nitrates jumped a little to the 40ppm range, but a 50% water change took care of that and it's been fine ever since.

got him in a 10 gal qt tank and got some melafix today to add to it. we'll see if that doesn't help any.


thanks for the help doodles and gem,
andrew
 
D

dw1305

Global Moderators
Staff member
May 5, 2009
1,396
0
36
Wiltshire nr. Bath, UK
Hi all,
Gem400 and the other posters are right, that is a classical picture of ammonia damage to the gills and eyes.

How did it happen? it's quite difficult to get an ammonia spike in an established tank with growing plants (unless you have a dead fish etc.). Has the pH been higher? again at pH below 7 you wouldn't expect to get that much damage (it's to do with the ratio of NH3 and NH4+ at different temperatures and pH, a calculator on this link)

I don't know much about Cories, but 81F seems a bit warm (if the temperature was lower there would be less ammonia NH3 and more ammonium NH4)?

cheers Darrel
 
Andrew_x

Andrew_x

Member
Oct 11, 2009
49
0
6
Kansas City, MO
I have no clue what caused the spike. Ph has actually been brought up slowly from about 6.2 and hasn't been much higher than 6.5. It actually happened when the ph was lower which I was confused by.

tank is well established as I said, but it doesn't have any live plants. Not sure what caused it. Didn't change the filters or anything like that. Like I said i'm not sure if I stocked it too quickly, but all water params were fine when I began stocking after the piranha and were fine for a few weeks after stocking up until the spike. No dead fish as I recall.

also, the symptoms just started to show up within the past week.

I'll try to give more info whe I'm home. On my phone right now and its a bit difficult to answer all the questions and give all details.


thanks,
andrew
 
Andrew_x

Andrew_x

Member
Oct 11, 2009
49
0
6
Kansas City, MO
got home today and the poor guy was floatin. water params in hospital tank were same as in the tank he came out of. he had appeared to be doing a lot better, was quite active in the qt tank. i dunno what it was. all the others look fine and are always swimming about.

maybe i just didn't catch it soon enough?

also lost the mango, after two weeks. he just never would eat but was always active. i guess when things are good, they're good and when they're bad, they're real bad.

like i said both tanks' params look good with 0 ammonia and nitrite, little over 10 nitrate, and ph about 6.5. i think the gh was 2 and kh was 6; maybe the other way around.

i'll just keep on truckin (or fishin?) though. getting a new tank for the first time in a few years. i'll let it cycle and hopefully have a 55 gal amazon biotope in the basement in a month or so. gotta invest in an r.o. though as right now i'm using buffers to get the ph right and the plants won't do so well with it.

thanks for eveyone's help and input.


andrew
 
D

Doodles

Retired Staff
Apr 8, 2009
8,786
2
36
:( Sorry you lost him, tbh you probably wouldnt of caught him in time.

Id keep an eye on the PH, especially if its the KH that is 2.

I also remember reading that it isn't just nuggets that are hard to get settled but barys in general, which would include the mango.

Baryancistrus pleco's are notorious for being very hard to acclimatize, and a substantial percentage of all fish imported die within the first month or so in captivity, due to stress and malnourishment/starvation. Another common and often fatal problem with recently imported Baryancistrus is problems with the bacterial intestinal flora, which has become negatively affected by shipping: the dieing off of vital bacteria in the gut causes digestive problems and problems extracting, especially during the first weeks of captivity essential nutrients from the food the fish eats. Fish being sold need to have been in quarantine at the importer/seller for a at least a few weeks, to maximize the chances of survival once brought home. Fish that haven't been through this procedure can often be recognized by the sunken eyes and belly - most of these fish will die within a few weeks at most.
Once at home, the quarantine procedure isn't over yet: before being introduced in a tank with other fish, Baryancistrus should be kept in a small separate tank for at least a few weeks. This is to assure that the fish can acclimatize at ease, can adjust to your specific water parameters. Also can be checked whether the fish eats (reddish to dark-brown feaces, depending on the foods offered, should be noticeable), and what types of food are eaten especially well. Once the fish eats well, is active and alert, and looks/acts healthy (full belly, round, clear eyes and good coloration), it is ready to be moved to a larger tank with tank mates.
With the introduction into a larger tank with tank mates, the problems aren't necessarily over, however. No matter how vulnerable Baryancistrus pleco's are during the first number of weeks, once properly acclimatized it will set up a territory, and will chase off any intruder: not only fish of its own kind, but in many cases also another bottom dwellers will be driven off, often in a very violent manner. In some cases, problematic fish have to be taken out of the tank and moved to a separate tank to avoid stress and injuries, and either put by itself or with very robust tank mates.
Click to expand...
http://www.plecoplanet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1656
 
D

dw1305

Global Moderators
Staff member
May 5, 2009
1,396
0
36
Wiltshire nr. Bath, UK
Hi all,
Sorry to here this, if you can I definitely try and get some growing plants, they aren't just ornamental, but have a lot of positive effects on water quality.
cheers Darrel
 
Andrew_x

Andrew_x

Member
Oct 11, 2009
49
0
6
Kansas City, MO
doodles, thanks. the gn and mango shipped in the same day to the lfs, and i bought the gn that day. waited about a week and a half on the mango. the gn is a little pig, and like i said the mango never really seemed to eat that i could see. it took about a week and a half in my tank to show any physical sign of not eating. when i saw his belly a little sunken, i put some extra zucchini in around the tank, but to no avail.

darrel, as far as plants... i'd love to have them, but tap water ph here is at or above 8.8. in order to get the pH i need, i use api's proper pH. i'm not big on using the chemicals, and a lot of places i've read say a stable pH is all that's needed, but the fish appear quite a bit happier and more colorful than they did prior to proper ph. soooo, that's why i'm investing in an r.o. unit when i pick up the new tank. no chemicals; no messes; and hopefully some thriving plants.

and thanks to lornek8 for helping me decide to go with the r.o. unit.


andrew
 
D

dw1305

Global Moderators
Staff member
May 5, 2009
1,396
0
36
Wiltshire nr. Bath, UK
Hi all,
I think your last post probably explains why you have had problems. It is the water and pH down buffer. The things you've been told about pH are entirely wrong, without going into all the details, because your water is saturated with calcium carbonate, you need a huge amount of buffer to reduce the pH, the pH is lower but the water now has a huge amount of TDS, which is likely to reduce water quality to an unacceptable level, as well as using more oxygen etc.

It's difficult to thing of a simple explanation and this is a bit lame but its the best I can think of. Its like pouring something bitter, say coffee into a cup of water, and then adding something sweet, say sugar into the water as well, your tap water had a lot of "coffee" in it, you've added sugar until it isn't bitter any more, but what you have now is black coffee, not water.

Can you collect rainwater until the RO unit comes? unfortunately both your tap water and your pH reduced water are deeply unhealthy for your fish, which naturally come from soft water with a neutral or acidic pH, and very low TDS.

cheers Darrel
 
Andrew_x

Andrew_x

Member
Oct 11, 2009
49
0
6
Kansas City, MO
thanks for the info darrel; good analogy if i understood it correctly.

just tested again to verify. out of the tap, gh is 2, kh is 5. ph is 8.8+

in the 37 gal tank with the cories, gh is 2, kh is 4. ph is 6.5. this tank also has two large pieces of driftwood.

in the 29 gal tank, with the neons that drop like flies, gh is 2, kh is 5. ph is 7.0. this tank has a med and small piece of driftwood.

both tanks have 0 ammonia and nitrite, and about 10.

the gh and kh tests are a bit different from what i originally posted but i think these tests might be more accurate as the original post was only the 2nd time i'd done the gh tests and used a white background this time to get a little more precision.

with that being said, is TDS something completely different from hardness?


thanks for the help,
andrew
 
Andrew_x

Andrew_x

Member
Oct 11, 2009
49
0
6
Kansas City, MO
aha, now it's all making sense to me. always learning something, huh?

thanks for everyone's help. i'll get that ro unit asap, and a tds meter tomorrow if i can find one.


andrew
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom