dont known what to add to my tank???

I can only post this to reply to how fish should be housed
•Freedom from hunger and thirst - by ready access to fresh water and a diet to maintain full health and vigour

•Freedom from discomfort - by providing an appropriate environment including shelter and a comfortable resting area.

•Freedom from pain, injury or disease - by prevention or rapid diagnosis and treatment

•Freedom from fear and distress - by ensuring condition and treatment which avoid metal suffering

•Freedom to express normal behaviour - by providing sufficient space, proper facilities and company of the animals own kind.

I agree with all the advice given above,tank is too intermixed with inappropriate tank mates.., shoal fish need to be in shoals..

macvsog23 said:

I can only post this to reply to how fish should be housed
•Freedom from hunger and thirst - by ready access to fresh water and a diet to maintain full health and vigour

•Freedom from discomfort - by providing an appropriate environment including shelter and a comfortable resting area.

•Freedom from pain, injury or disease - by prevention or rapid diagnosis and treatment

•Freedom from fear and distress - by ensuring condition and treatment which avoid metal suffering

•Freedom to express normal behaviour - by providing sufficient space, proper facilities and company of the animals own kind.

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Very true and could apply to any species able to process thoughts and feelings. Shame mankind doesn't apply those rules to itself in most cases.

jessonthenet said:

Very true and could apply to any species able to process thoughts and feelings. Shame mankind doesn't apply those rules to itself in most cases.

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Stuff mankind they are the problem we have let God fill the world with fools

what lol like your take on things, in most cases fools breed fools and teach fools to be even better fools and the government allow them to be fools and get away with foolishness. So what do you do?

Far too much foolishness in the world! I've had enough of it .

I'm not condoning anything here (excepts Bobs statement at the top of pg3)

The guy has a general community tank, as supplied by many shops around the country. Yes all the the fish have differant biotopical requirements but I would bet my mortgage that alll of those fish listed (with the possible exception of L201) are farm bred in the far east or eastern europe. The selction he has will all co-exist together quite happily. I think apart from the 4 potentially huge commons the rest of fish are okay.

My suggestion to you would be:
Move the big plecs into your 400ltr tank.
Identify the shoaling fish and increase there numbers. Shoaling fish in small numbers feel very insecure and need the security of safety numbers. Neons, Pristella & Zebra Danios you need a minimum of 6-10 of each.

With regards to adding more fish I think you might like Rainbow fish, and I would also suggest adding a small group of Corydoras to the mix (Cories are shoaling fish and I would suggest a minimum of 5-6 for them to feel happy)

Experienced members - please remember that not everyone is a budding or experienced hobbyist some people just want to have a nice fishtank for the family to enjoy. A lot of there knowledge is passed on through the fish/pet shops they have within there area and we all know that many shops are very guilty of poor quality information or in many cases no information.

Johnny if you fancy re-thinking your tank and moving on to something that represents there natural enviroment then there are plenty of people here that are willing to help.

On the subject of Biotope - I dont know of natural enviroments that have no substrate, glass boxes and custom made perfect fit slate caves.......LOL.

I do think that Biotope is the way forward, for me I get a lot of satisfaction out of observing fish behaviour first and if they breed for me even better but breeding isn't my key objective. I have spent a lot of time recently researching, investigating and talking with Heiko about these form of keeping fish and I think it is certainly the forward. In recent years I have also been looking fish diets, I like many have been guilty of lavishing food upon my fish usually to tempt them out. I think we are guilty of feeding the wrong food more often than not. And this is something else I will be looking further into for my new project.

I am still working out the best way to start my next project but when I do that will be how I do it. And no doubt I'll be asking for advice within this forum.

I like the idea of creating a biotope but how much is to benefit the fish and how much is for personal taste.

If a fish is bred in an unnatural state will putting it in a wild environment be the same as forcing a wild fish to live in an unnatural one?

A bit like saying we evolve from monkeys so should all humans be forced to live in trees. If all fish were bred in tanks and no longer existed in the wild would the fish adapt to any condition humans created and be comfortable. Dogs are never supposed to live with humans but people dress them up in stupid costumes and carry them around like toys and you are seen as spoiling them. I think that should be added to the animal welfare act.

One persons idea of cruelty and normality will always be different to someone else's.

I totally agree with the dressing dogs up as teddy bears.....how do they regulate there body temps.

Very valid points well made, personally I like to have wild fishes.

Only time I didn't like the idea of wild fish is when I had celestial pearl danios back when they were still wild caught and called galaxy rasboras . Not sure what the correct name is now. I do have some now but tank bred.

I didn't realise the extent they were caught a while ago and they were quite hard to get hold of at the time and found out they were caught almost to extinction. Felt a little bit bad about it. Fish were lovely though and can understand the lengths people will go to just to have those fish.