Melafix - evil or unlucky?

Bloo · May 17, 2010

I wonder if anyone else has any really horrific experience with Malafix?

I mostly keep catfish / a few loaches, rainbows and a single angel fish (very lightly stocked in a 100gallon).
Well a few months ago the angel fish didn't appear well so I did my routine tank clean and added some Melafix to the tank (as directed and if anything I under-dosed)
The next morning I woke up and all my fish were almost comatose and gasping at the top, looking very pale. I had no idea what happened, but a water change usually helps, so that's what I did.
Hey presto in a few hours they were all fine.
And I didn't really think much about it.

A few months later then angel appeared slightly unwell again, so again I added some Melafix to the tank.
Next morning, same thing as before but this time I (this ripped my heart out) lost 4 massive plecs! 1 Huge L091 that I had since juvi, 1 stunning L266 plus equally large L200 and also an L144.

All my other fish were fine and alive (though in bad shape) - including ironically the angel fish (which to this day is still well and alive).

Anyway, again after a water change, they were fine (minus mass death).
Funny enough, when you google "Malafix" one the the first things to come up is a thread on Aquarist Classifieds of a similar nightmare.

Evil stuff I will never use again.

So why does this happen???

Doodles · May 17, 2010

Aye ive heard of similar stories over the years. I think Shari on loaches online had the same sort of thing happen.

From what ive gathered, its an oxygen issue, melafix and/or primafix can remove oxygen from the water, high temp tanks would be more affected imo as they hold less DO anyway. We always, always recommend increasing aeration when using either of these, or any meds as many do the same thing

Joby · May 17, 2010

I've used it a couple of times over the years of fish keeping but never had an issue with it, but always increase oxygen :yes:

Sorry you had such a horrible time with it :wb:

Bloo · May 17, 2010

Ahhh OK. I haven't medicated anything in years and didn't know Melafix.
Lesson learnt :cry:

Ps: didn't really think to increase Oxygen as the tank is already heavily oxygenated with 2 spray bars. That aside the tank is massively over filtrated (huge water turn-over) and also has an internal water pump. Not enough I guess :dk:

dw1305 · May 17, 2010

Hi all,

Ps: didn't really think to increase Oxygen as the tank is already heavily oxygenated with 2 spray bars. That aside the tank is massively over filtrated (huge water turn-over) and also has an internal water pump. Not enough I guess

Sorry to hear about your losses, what you need to remember is that if the water becomes oxygen depleted (in this case by the melafix) the biological filtration in the filter won't work to anything near its full capacity and water quality may become compromised. Although the spray bars and water flow will help to add oxygen, they don't have anything like the effect you might imagine they would, this is partially because air is only 21% oxygen and partially because oxygen isn't very soluble (much less so than CO2 for example). Air pumps can be useful in this situation, but they need to produce very fine bubbles, which are ideally then picked up by the filter intake.

cheers Darrel

FF MkII · May 17, 2010

You dont say that the angel was injured, just unwell. I only ever use melafix for fish that actually have wounds which is what melafix is for. Its not designed as a general tonic if you fish are feeling a little under the weather.

matubula · May 17, 2010

On the oxygen depletion bit. I rememeber reading a post by Neil from Pier Aquatics on their forum, he said that the tea tree oil in melafix coats the gills and kills the fish, presumably from not allowing gaseous exchange.

Doodles · May 17, 2010

matubula said:
On the oxygen depletion bit. I rememeber reading a post by Neil from Pier Aquatics on their forum, he said that the tea tree oil in melafix coats the gills and kills the fish, presumably from not allowing gaseous exchange.

Interesting. Why doesn't it happen to all fish all the time?

FF MkII · May 17, 2010

matubula said:
On the oxygen depletion bit. I rememeber reading a post by Neil from Pier Aquatics on their forum, he said that the tea tree oil in melafix coats the gills and kills the fish, presumably from not allowing gaseous exchange.

Yup, He hates the stuff. Its not the fact its Tea tree, its the actual oil itself which if you think about it does make sense.

Bloo · May 17, 2010

FF MkII said:
You dont say that the angel was injured, just unwell. I only ever use melafix for fish that actually have wounds which is what melafix is for. Its not designed as a general tonic if you fish are feeling a little under the weather.

I should have clarified (but thought my story was getting a bit long already). The Angel had an eye injury and I wasn't sure what the cause was. It's been in the tank for 2 years and all other fish were well. No other cichlids or fish that might "pick" on him. The eye became opaque.
So perhaps I jumped the gun with the Melafix but at the time I thought it could be an early sign of something that might affect the other fish (even though there were absolutely no signs of unwellness and I hadn't added any new fish or plants in months if not years).

Anyway, it then flared up again and started looking really horrible (so the second Melafix treatment) but it actually subsequently lost the eye. Though still living happily ever after.

In hindsight I should have isolated the sick fish.

graham26 · May 17, 2010

I have used it a couple of times with no problems but i always follow up with a big water change & add extra aeration as can deplete the air supply from the water

Irene0100 · May 17, 2010

I have used it quite often, no problems, and with pimafix as well, but I make sure there is lots of bubbling in the tank. its important to shake the bottle first too.

macvsog23 · May 17, 2010

I am a great fan of the "Fix it Twins" melafix and Primafix.

But with all meds caution is the rule.

I would never add any med as a general "Tonic" not that I am saying you have
I always water change before adding meds
I always keep a very close eye on any tank taht has been treated.

I am a great believer in the 3 rules 10% water change don't over feed and don't over stock

With a aquarium your keeping a large amount of fish in a small area. Even with big filters & big tanks it is still not natural so any meds added will act fast and at time unpredictably.

Any Meds will not only react to the water quality but to bacteria, chemicals ect that are in the water.

In Defence of the fix it twins I have droped whole bottles of them in tanks by mistake and suffered no loss.

Commenting on Neil's distrust of the fix it twins I would never use them in a LFS environment. Even with stocking levels that are as low as Neil's I would still worry about adverse affects.

Regards Bob

Bloo · May 17, 2010

Thanks for all the advice and experience shared.
Expensive (and sad) lesson learnt.

RobHarrison · May 18, 2010

Yes same thing happend to me i had Denison Barbs with white spot and cloudy eye i bought 9 of them and within 12hrs they became ill

so i dosed the tank with the correct amount of Melafix i had loads of oxygen in my tank it almost lookd like a bubble bath from the surface it was becoming a scumy apearence but i left it as going off the bottle i had done everything right, within the next 24hrs i lost my L330 he turnd pale grey and fins lookd like they were rotting, my L47`s skin started to peel and turn white and a L75`s skin broke revealing sore looking red wounds, i didnt redose and i performed manyy water changes but it didnt take much longer for all the fish to die even the denison barbs! Total tank clearout i was gutted needless to say i stay well away from the stuff now, ill only use Liquisil and water changes to treat my fish now and ive never had any issues since. I was told that melafix and primafix is a oily substance that clings to plecs skin and causes irritation and poss death of the fish i learnt my lesson but theres no warnings on the bottle at all, even a slightly subtle sentance would do, may cause side effects poss death!!

Doodles · May 18, 2010

matubula said:
On the oxygen depletion bit. I rememeber reading a post by Neil from Pier Aquatics on their forum, he said that the tea tree oil in melafix coats the gills and kills the fish, presumably from not allowing gaseous exchange.

FF MkII said:
Yup, He hates the stuff. Its not the fact its Tea tree, its the actual oil itself which if you think about it does make sense.

Still interesting. It would make sense, were the affected fish checked out by someone?

Anyway more info on the oxygen depletion issue

Melafix and primafix-how they work and don't work

It was the end of my third day at InterZoo 2006 in Nuremberg, GERMANY. Part of my objective for going there was to obtain information regarding fish medications.

I had the opportunity to speak with people in the (large and impressive) Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Inc. (API) booth. I had a long conversation with their Research Project Manager, including new medication packaging, fish medications in general, and some interesting specifics about Melafix and Pimafix.

API makes and packages Melafix and Pimafix. They come in 'industrial strength' and 'regular strength' concentrations. I've used both in my evaluations.

I asked why there was inconsistent results between users and indeed, even in my own applications of these products. These chemicals are 'natural' organic compounds derived from plants.

I was told that it was quite simple. . .These products (Melafix and Pimafix) only kill some kinds of bacteria. I asked if he meant gram negative or positive and the answer was, "No." What he meant was that, irrespective of gram stain results, the bacteria that is thwarted by these products is a finite group (which is mostly unknown).

They know, for instance, that Melafix wipes out mycobacterium and a few others. What about the other bacteria?

They don't know. One aquarist's fish could have a type of bacteria that Melafix will kill, and another aquarist will have bacteria it won't touch. So one aquarist may say, "It works!" and the other says "It doesn't work." Both can be right.

There is a small downside to their use, which shouldn't be cause for general concern, but nonetheless the aquarist should be on the lookout for this situation:

Both Melafix and Pimafix are organic compounds. The bacteria in the tank water (not necessarily the ones on the fish) these products don't kill, sometimes use the Melafix and Pimafix as food! This means that when you add these medications to a tank (especially a tank that has not been maintained well or one that hasn't had regular water changes) there is a small chance that a bacterial bloom will ensue and take up dissolved oxygen. This could mean that you could see, under such circumstances, your fish significantly increase their respiratory rate.

I was told an interesting tidbit. . .The above affect seems to be happening quite often in Italy and API hasn't been able to figure out why, yet.

The fish may seem to be desperately trying to get oxygen and, in effect, they are. This will of course be adding a significant stress factor to an already stressed, sick fish. If the aquarist has any doubt or concern about this, perform an oxygen test before and during the treatment for monitoring purposes.

API has not done much work at trying to figure out all the bacteria that these two compounds are effective against. They don't seem to want to go much further with it. Since aquarists don't know the exact bacteria that is infecting their fish, it might be a moot point whether it was of value knowing what bacteria it was good for, anyway. It IS selling to aquarists!

However, in the professional arena (public and private aquariums, for instance) where scrapings and identification of infections are performed, not knowing whether Melafix and/or Pimafix will treat the bacteria isn't worth the risk. You'll find they don't use these medications.

The concern with an aquarist using these products is that it might not work. When that happens, the bacteria causing the problem can continue to multiply and adversely affect the fish. Most fish should be able to survive a 'mis-treatment' if they are well fed with the proper nutrition.

In such a case where Melafix and/or Pimafix can't kill that particular bacteria, the fish suffers longer by not having been given a successful treatment. Usually, the fish should not expire by this lost time IF the fish is given the correct antibiotic treatment immediately after a failed Melafix/Pimafix treatment.

But if the infection has progressed significantly and/or it has become systemic and/or the fish has stopped eating, I'd still suggest a known likely effects of an antibiotic over the chance that Melafix or Pimafix might work. Under these circumstances, the wrong choice of medication could mean the fish will expire because it couldn't hold out any longer for the effective medication.

http://www.reefland.com/forum/marine-fish-care-health-disease-treatment/18757-melafix-pimafix-how-they-work-dont-work.html#post134771

Im not suggesting at all that Bloo's tank wasn't well maintained or didnt receive regular water changes, but that is apparently the main cause of the problem. Another point of interest is, if your fish is suffering from an ailment caused by bacteria that is not treatable with these meds, you could end up feeding that very same bacteria which could make the situation a lot worse.

Bloo · May 18, 2010

Doodles said:
Still interesting. It would make sense, were the affected fish checked out by someone?

Anyway more info on the oxygen depletion issue

http://www.reefland.com/forum/marine-fish-care-health-disease-treatment/18757-melafix-pimafix-how-they-work-dont-work.html#post134771

Im not suggesting at all that Bloo's tank wasn't well maintained or didnt receive regular water changes, but that is apparently the main cause of the problem. Another point of interest is, if your fish is suffering from an ailment caused by bacteria that is not treatable with these meds, you could end up feeding that very same bacteria which could make the situation a lot worse.

Very interesting article!

Thank you. For the record, I really don't think my tank was over stocked or not well set up / maintained. Under stocked if anything?
With both an XP3 & Eheim 2224 filter plus internal powerhead. One filter has a spray bar effect and the other is a single outlet a couple of inches above the water line, so that outlet creates a strong force of water & huge amount of bubbles - right above the intake.

Water changes (incl. sand vac) are roughly every 10 days @ 30%. That routine is practically constant.

I'll simply never use Malafix again. Especially with the above article in mind (and info shared by others).

This alone is enough to convince me:

However, in the professional arena (public and private aquariums, for instance) where scrapings and identification of infections are performed, not knowing whether Melafix and/or Pimafix will treat the bacteria isn't worth the risk. You'll find they don't use these medications.

The concern with an aquarist using these products is that it might not work. When that happens, the bacteria causing the problem can continue to multiply and adversely affect the fish.

Doodles · May 18, 2010

I know a lot of people use it without problems but I don't,haven't used either for 2 or 3 years now. Theres nothing imo that melafix can do that plenty of waters changes and aeration can't when there's a problem. Obviously this wouldn't be true of a lot of ailments.

Breamlegend · May 18, 2010

Doodles said:
I know a lot of people use it without problems but I don't,haven't used either for 2 or 3 years now. Theres nothing imo that melafix can do that plenty of waters changes and aeration can't when there's a problem. Obviously this wouldn't be true of a lot of ailments.

I agree 100%. I have a bottle of each but never use it.

bre · May 18, 2010

Doodles said:
I know a lot of people use it without problems but I don't,haven't used either for 2 or 3 years now. Theres nothing imo that melafix can do that plenty of waters changes and aeration can't when there's a problem. Obviously this wouldn't be true of a lot of ailments.

When we started with the breeding side of fish keeping we started keeping 4 meds on hand....melafix, pimafix, protozin and sterazin and never had any adverse reactions with any of the meds. However we have not used any meds in the past 12 months on any fish. Just frequent water changes, increased aeration and isolation when a fish is showing symptons. It's only when it's affecting multiple fish that i will treat the whole tank and even then I make sure I have the right med for that ailment.
If you are ever unsure what med to use it's always best to do some research first if you are able to.

Melafix - evil or unlucky?

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